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Post by mrblackcat on Jul 26, 2017 2:57:17 GMT
EDIT: (Project now completed. Sept,2017)
So just how rare and hard to find are these components? Here is my understanding of what I need to get a .41 Mag running on my Mk VII (Mk XIX) .50AE Desert Eagle. Please correct or confirm I have this straight...
My understanding is that everything is needed...
.41/.44 Mk VII Slide.
.41 Mag Bolt.
.41 Magazines. (Got some of these now!)
.41 Barrel. (obviously)
As I read on forums and a couple of FAQ's, it seems that the .41 shares nothing with the .44 such at the .44 Magnum shares the bolt with the .50AE.
I saw a barrel come up on eBay for sale recently, but I didn't know if any of the pieces of the puzzle were impossible to find making the other parts irrelevent unless you needed them as replacements.
So will I be able to find all of these parts? If so, what are the expected prices for them? If a barrel never sells for less than $1000, I would like to know so I won't jump on something for an insane price if I can avoid it. I hate when I hear "well I would have sold you mine for half that!". And please tell me they aren't as scarce as the mythical .440 CorBon barrels and ammo...
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I am going to start watching gun sales sites for them for a while and see what turns up. If I see a complete gun in good condition, I may just try to buy that.
MrBlackCat
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Post by American Deagle on Jul 27, 2017 12:14:16 GMT
I have seen a 41 mag once in my life at a gun show about 5 years back i cant remember the price, but it was when i was just getting into guns and the price seemed un attainable. But from what I have observed your list is right on. Unless Magnum research decides to release 41 again. Which would honestly be a good business decision even if only a limited edition. I am sure enough people would pay a premium for one new. I think i would. It may also make parts cheaper as there would be a new supply of parts. The part by part isnt too bad of an idea because you can spread it out over time as you find them.
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Post by mrblackcat on Aug 3, 2017 3:41:37 GMT
At first I thought I made an error... after some more research into .41 magnum parts, it seems it might have shared a bolt with the 44 magnum, but it doesn't. There is something like .030 difference in the .41 Mag case rim diameter, so I wondered if they would be close enough to still work, but it doesn't. Two different bolts. Darn. SO, I got my catalog from 1993 and sure enough, the conversion kits that go to/from .357/.41 and .357/.44 are about $100 more than the ones that go to/from .41/.44... I suspected that is because the bolt is not needed, but it must have been something else. I will keep looking.  MrBlackCat |
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Post by boxilar on Oct 26, 2017 19:37:16 GMT
I may well be wrong, but it is my understanding that the .357 Magnum MkI and MkVII slide are basically identical and was exclusive to .357 Magnum. The MkI/MkVII .44 Magnum slide is used for both .41 and .44 Magnum. The .357 slide being too small for .41 Mag. Conversion to .41 Mag from .44 Mag required swapping the blot, barrel and magazine on a .44 Magnum gun. At one point after the MkVII .50AE had been introduced, a complete caliber kit for 6" Desert Eagle included the MkVII gripframe, the complete .357 Magnum slide, bolt and barrel with magazine, a .41/.44 Magnum slide, a bolt, barrel and magazine for .41 magnum, a bolt, barrel and magazine for .44 magnum and a slide, bolt barrel and magazine for .50AE. The reason for the difference in price is likely because going from .357 to any other caliber requires a slide change in the MkI and MkVII guns. If MRI decided to release a new .41 Magnum, it would likely be on the MkXIX platform. I doubt they will though. Despite bragging rights of being the most powerful semiauto handgun in the world with .50AE, the success of the Desert Eagle is really based on being able to toddle down to the local gun shop or even Walmart and being able to pick up ammo for it. But while we're dreaming, I want one in 10mm Magnum. It's a rimless cartridge that is ballistically similar to .41 Magnum that was developed for the Automag IV. In a Desert Eagle it could be double stacked, since it's basically a stretched 10 mm auto. Playing around with some .40S&W cartridges and a .50AE mag, it looks like it would be a 14 or 15 round double stacked gun.
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Post by mrblackcat on Oct 27, 2017 0:24:07 GMT
I ended up just buying a .41 Magnum Desert Eagle as opposed to putting on together to run on my Mx VII/MkXIX .50. It was much less expensive doing this due to the rarity of the parts I suppose. I agree with your slide/bolt/barrel model fitment assessment. I have researched this relentlessly since early this year. I have been lucky enough not to find to many armchair experts on this subject. Actually having the parts and guns seems to be the most reliable test of what works and what doesn’t. I will just get a wide range of models and their parts and learn first hand. This is my original Desert Eagle (Mk VII in .50AE) with most everything I have so far.  As far as other calibers, I looked at 10mm Magnum for a custom barrel project. Based on ballistics, it would have been a great cartridge, but I don't reload, and availability of the ammo is gone from what I could tell. Even .41 Magnum is only available locally at premium prices in gun stores here. I mail order almost all of my ammo now and have for years. I am still working on my 10mm auto Desert Eagle barrel however. MrBlackCat |
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Post by boxilar on Oct 27, 2017 5:20:45 GMT
That's a nice collection you've got going there. I've got a 2008 Israeli built .44 Magnum that I ended up getting the 6" .357 and .50AE barrels for. I want to get 10" barrels for each caliber. I also ended up with a curiosity. I ordered a .357 barrel from Numerich with the intention of getting a MkI or MkVII .357 slide for it. What I got was a Production prototype .357 barrel with land and groove rifling that won't fit on my gun. I should have sent it back, but it's odd enough that I decided to keep it. I've seen guys devoted to reloading have .44 Magnum barrels rechambered to take .440 CorBon. I suppose you could start with a .357 barrel and ream it out. 10mm has a smaller rim than .357 Magnum, so maybe you mod a .357 bolt to work with the cartridge.
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Post by mrblackcat on Oct 27, 2017 10:24:12 GMT
I have read about those land/groove barrels before. I also read there are a tiny few also for .50AE that the Action Express fellow had made while developing the round back in the day. .357 10" is all I lack as far as what I want for barrels. I will likely just buy this one direct from Magnum Research as they seem kind of rare in the wild for a Mk.XIX. I was planning to rechamber a 44 Magnum for .440 CorBon, until I read about the issues with ammo consistency and again, I don't reload yet. As far as 10mm Auto... I am reaming it out and button rifling it... in theory. Then I will re-cut the chamber. I will be using the .357 magnum extractor. It will extract now by hand, but in action I doubt it will. Is only 0.014 different, so I can easy remove a tiny amount of material off the extractor claw to make it seat deeper. Because I already have perfectly head-spaced .357 Magnum barrels for reference, head-spacing should not be an issue. Feeding is another challenge I will overcome after I get a barrel working. If the reaming/rifle project fails, I will just sleeve it and go from there. This will take some time, but I think is not unreasonable. MrBlackCat |
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Post by boxilar on Oct 27, 2017 19:13:25 GMT
If you buy your .357 10" directly from MRI, be sure you have the right MkXIX .357 bolt. There is a difference between the Israeli made MkXIX .357 bolt and the Pillager made bolt. If you have the newer nine slot .357 Barrel and the bolt that goes with it, you're golden. The new bolt has a smaller face and noticeable neck down as compared to the old style MkXIX .357 bolt. I'm definitely interested in your 10mm project. If it goes well, I may have to try it myself.
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Post by mrblackcat on Oct 27, 2017 21:45:37 GMT
Interesting... I've not heard of and didn't know anything about different Mk XIX .357 Mag bolts. I bought my .357 bolt from an auction on eBay, new old stock. It seems to work fine with my current production .357 barrels.
I will look up a comparison and see if I can tell which one I have.
Can you tell me what advantages/disadvantages there are, or what issues might occur with one vs the other?
MrBlackCat
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Post by boxilar on Oct 28, 2017 15:04:08 GMT
Presumably the neck down is to give the Pillager made bolt the same profile as the original MkI .357 bolt. MRI apparently doesn't make the difference clear. If your .357 Bolt has a straight profile with no neck, locking lugs the same size as the .44/.50 bolt and a thick rim around the the recess for the case head, you've got an old style Israeli made .357 MkXIX bolt. The new Pillager style bolt has a neck down with smaller locking lugs and a thin ring around the case head recess. The two styles won't work with barrels of the other style. The reason why they changed seems a bit murky, but I think it was to deal with perceived feeding issues. ther than that, I haven't seen any advantage of one over the other. If your bolt is working with current production barrels, it's probably the newer Pillager style.
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Post by mrblackcat on Oct 28, 2017 20:54:03 GMT
Here is the one I bought from a seller on eBay a few months ago...   Thank you for the information and speculation. And yes, my Mk VII(XIX) runs .357 well since I polished the chamber. I did polish the bolt quite a bit also, on the sharp edges where the rim rides up the face of the bolt into center position. MrBlackCat |
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Post by boxilar on Nov 1, 2017 5:24:28 GMT
You've got the current necked down bolt. Not surprising, since they've been making them since 2009. To my knowledge, which is admittedly far from complete, the only guns being made in Israel are .44 and .50 models. .357 guns are now exclusively U.S. made.
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