Post by mrblackcat on Jan 14, 2018 4:16:53 GMT
Quick background...
I shoot all four calibers on two Desert Eagles at this point. I am new to all calibers except .50AE, which I have had for 25 years or so. The importance here... my original .50 AE doesn't experience issues from Limp Wristing, or any other issues that don't involve being dirty, or springs aging. Normal stuff.
Last year I bought a couple of new .357 Magnum barrels, magazines, and a new bolt for .357 Magnum. At first I had extreme feed and extraction issues, which I resolved myself by honing the chamber smooth, and did some polishing of the bolt face. That problem solved. Next I wanted to see just how low power (inexpensive) of ammo quality this thing could fire. I bought some super inexpensive target .357 from American Quality, because I shoot their .50AE more than any other, because it is inexpensive and works without issue. The .357 American Quality was just too low powered in the .357 Magnum... no problem, sold it to someone with a revolver and had a better idea of what velocity of ammo might be minimum for the Desert Eagle to function reliably.
I bought a number of different brands and loadings for the .357 and basically anything XTP, home defense, higher velocity, works fine. I got down to two economy brands that worked ok sometimes and not others... Aguilla and PPU.
The Issue...
I decided to do more ammo testing for .357 recently so I grabbed some Aguilla first and dumped an 8 round magazine without issue. Then I loaded up the PPU and after the first shot, the slide didn't close all the way. It lacked between 1/4 and 3/8ths of an inch from closing. So quickly I went to safety and closed it easily with my thumb... not the first time this has happened of course. After that, almost every shot had this issue. So I swapped guns... same issue. So I swapped ammo... same issue.
The Testing...
First thing was to clean one component at a time and see if something effected it... recoil springs first... no effect. Because I suspected it, I removed the bolt and cleaned it and the cylinder it operates in. No effect. I cleaned the slide and rails and put a super light application of grease on them, and then wiped it off, as usual... that helped... a little. But it didn't solve the issue... it came right back.
The cause and one simple resolution...
Then it hit me... so simple... I noticed the case ejections were really light, but .357 is always like that in my gun. So I locked my grip and emptied the magazine. So I loaded another magazine with the weaker Aguilla and emptied that also... with a locked arm grip. For the next couple of boxes I could alternate between guns, and between weak and firm grips and get the gun to fail or succeed, based on nothing but grip.
Simply, the slide is not coming back far enough to get the "running start" it needs to feed the next round solidly. The recoil springs don't have enough pressure to load a round from the magazine without "momentum" from the slide. To test this, pull your slide back JUST far enough to catch a round from the magazine, then try to ease it down slowly... seldom will it be able feed... it needs the momentum it gets from the full open position of the slide.
Anyway... This is my first experience with "Limp Wristing" as the definitive cause of failure. The two loadings are on the fringe of function as far as pressure developed I suppose.
So could this be the cause of your Desert Eagle failure to return to battery? It is in my case. Easy to resolve obviously, if you know the cause.
The complicated resolution...
I am going to resolve this another way however, as I have described in other posts... I will increase the gas pressure to the slide with a custom gas piston. I precision measured the gas cylinder and it is about 1.1 to 1.2 thousandths larger than my original Israeli gas cylinder. This is an issue with all my American barrels in varying degrees. This is not a terrible amount of excess clearance between the piston/cylinder, but it is plenty to effect pressure on these lower power rounds. I will just make a piston about one thousandth of an inch larger, with smaller vents, and it will be sufficient to shoot the less powerful ammo with disregard for limp wristing. I have done this with three other barrels with this issue so far. I know it is inconvenient to change pistons with each barrel, but this is the solution I have chosen. I also am very careful to keep each custom piston with its barrel so there isn't an accidental swap.
One other cause I have experienced...
The only other issue I have had with failure to return to battery is caused by new extractor "springs" (polymer nub) being too tight for a break-in period. The extractor claw has difficulty snapping over the rim. You can test this by dropping a round into the chamber, then easing the slide down on it. You should be able to feel how much resistance it takes to pop the close over the rim of the round.
I hope this post can help some percentage of others who experience failure to return to battery purely on grip.
I may come back and edit this for clarity later...
Happy Shootin!
MrBlackCat
I shoot all four calibers on two Desert Eagles at this point. I am new to all calibers except .50AE, which I have had for 25 years or so. The importance here... my original .50 AE doesn't experience issues from Limp Wristing, or any other issues that don't involve being dirty, or springs aging. Normal stuff.
Last year I bought a couple of new .357 Magnum barrels, magazines, and a new bolt for .357 Magnum. At first I had extreme feed and extraction issues, which I resolved myself by honing the chamber smooth, and did some polishing of the bolt face. That problem solved. Next I wanted to see just how low power (inexpensive) of ammo quality this thing could fire. I bought some super inexpensive target .357 from American Quality, because I shoot their .50AE more than any other, because it is inexpensive and works without issue. The .357 American Quality was just too low powered in the .357 Magnum... no problem, sold it to someone with a revolver and had a better idea of what velocity of ammo might be minimum for the Desert Eagle to function reliably.
I bought a number of different brands and loadings for the .357 and basically anything XTP, home defense, higher velocity, works fine. I got down to two economy brands that worked ok sometimes and not others... Aguilla and PPU.
The Issue...
I decided to do more ammo testing for .357 recently so I grabbed some Aguilla first and dumped an 8 round magazine without issue. Then I loaded up the PPU and after the first shot, the slide didn't close all the way. It lacked between 1/4 and 3/8ths of an inch from closing. So quickly I went to safety and closed it easily with my thumb... not the first time this has happened of course. After that, almost every shot had this issue. So I swapped guns... same issue. So I swapped ammo... same issue.
The Testing...
First thing was to clean one component at a time and see if something effected it... recoil springs first... no effect. Because I suspected it, I removed the bolt and cleaned it and the cylinder it operates in. No effect. I cleaned the slide and rails and put a super light application of grease on them, and then wiped it off, as usual... that helped... a little. But it didn't solve the issue... it came right back.
The cause and one simple resolution...
Then it hit me... so simple... I noticed the case ejections were really light, but .357 is always like that in my gun. So I locked my grip and emptied the magazine. So I loaded another magazine with the weaker Aguilla and emptied that also... with a locked arm grip. For the next couple of boxes I could alternate between guns, and between weak and firm grips and get the gun to fail or succeed, based on nothing but grip.
Simply, the slide is not coming back far enough to get the "running start" it needs to feed the next round solidly. The recoil springs don't have enough pressure to load a round from the magazine without "momentum" from the slide. To test this, pull your slide back JUST far enough to catch a round from the magazine, then try to ease it down slowly... seldom will it be able feed... it needs the momentum it gets from the full open position of the slide.
Anyway... This is my first experience with "Limp Wristing" as the definitive cause of failure. The two loadings are on the fringe of function as far as pressure developed I suppose.
So could this be the cause of your Desert Eagle failure to return to battery? It is in my case. Easy to resolve obviously, if you know the cause.
The complicated resolution...
I am going to resolve this another way however, as I have described in other posts... I will increase the gas pressure to the slide with a custom gas piston. I precision measured the gas cylinder and it is about 1.1 to 1.2 thousandths larger than my original Israeli gas cylinder. This is an issue with all my American barrels in varying degrees. This is not a terrible amount of excess clearance between the piston/cylinder, but it is plenty to effect pressure on these lower power rounds. I will just make a piston about one thousandth of an inch larger, with smaller vents, and it will be sufficient to shoot the less powerful ammo with disregard for limp wristing. I have done this with three other barrels with this issue so far. I know it is inconvenient to change pistons with each barrel, but this is the solution I have chosen. I also am very careful to keep each custom piston with its barrel so there isn't an accidental swap.
One other cause I have experienced...
The only other issue I have had with failure to return to battery is caused by new extractor "springs" (polymer nub) being too tight for a break-in period. The extractor claw has difficulty snapping over the rim. You can test this by dropping a round into the chamber, then easing the slide down on it. You should be able to feel how much resistance it takes to pop the close over the rim of the round.
I hope this post can help some percentage of others who experience failure to return to battery purely on grip.
I may come back and edit this for clarity later...
Happy Shootin!
MrBlackCat
